标题: 唐朝的州刺史是几品官?
性别:未知-离线 岳光寒
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发表于 2012-12-13 12:04 资料 主页 个人空间 短消息 看全部作者
这个模式很好理解,就是为了某些目的人为增加行政区划的数量,当然,也有人口增长的关系,不过不大。

就是增加——分级——再增加/上再加等——分级……

因为隋唐两代一会郡改州,一会州改郡,所以州郡是一样的,几乎每个州都有个郡名,然后后来又设节度使,然后节度使又慢慢增加,导致很多州都成了节度州,于是这些州大多数又赐了军额,这样到了宋朝,很多州都有三个名,州名、郡名、军号。东西一旦泛滥,就要分等级,连太平天国的王泛滥了之后都要分级,行政区划也不例外。于是州有紧、望、上、中、下之分。宋朝开始,在京府之外,又把某些州升为府(府与州行政上平级,地位上高于州),又增加了等级,但后来府也渐渐多了,于是又分京府、大都督府、都督府、次府等等级。到明清之后州又都变成府了。

[ 本帖最后由 岳光寒 于 2012-12-13 12:07 编辑 ]


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发表于 2012-12-13 23:52 资料 主页 个人空间 短消息 看全部作者
“市”本来是指商业区,固定的市一般只能在城里,乡间的市一般叫集,是暂时的、流动的。

清末还是称府的,你说的南京其实是江宁府、另两个安庆府、杭州府(州是名称的一部分,而不再是行政区划)

民国初期将清朝的府都废为县,于是行政区划变成省、县两级,中间时而有道,但后来也废了。
北洋时期南方第二次护法运动的时候,国民军政府在广州,作为政府驻地的广州成立了市政厅,从而成为中国第一个“市”,孙中山之子孙科成为中国第一个“市长”。
之后全国陆续推行市制。不过这个市的概念跟现在有所不同,不是行政区划,而是有自治权的法人,普通市由县管辖,特别市由省直辖,首都则是由中央直辖的特别市,市的辖地一般只有人口密集具有商业价值的城区,而不辖乡村。
北伐之后,国民政府又重新定义了市,分为院辖市(后改直辖市)和省辖市,前者与省平级,后者与县平级。

[ 本帖最后由 岳光寒 于 2012-12-13 23:54 编辑 ]


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发表于 2012-12-13 23:53 资料 主页 个人空间 短消息 看全部作者
靠,写帖子中途去看了会电视,回来写完发出,才发现咩讹埋这厮抢先了。
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发表于 2012-12-14 20:41 资料 主页 个人空间 短消息 看全部作者


QUOTE:
原帖由 KYOKO 于 2012-12-14 13:12 发表
受教

提到南京,既然在清朝被称为“江宁”,那在鸦片战争中签订的条约理应被称为“中英江宁条约”,为啥我们只说“南京条约”捏?

条约本来是没有名称的,或者可以说其正式名称是不以签订地点命名的,所以无论是江宁条约还是南京条约都只能是俗称,另外还称白门条约,不同时代的史家在提到这个条约时给安的不同的名字而已。

古代的澶渊之盟、海上之盟、绍兴和议、隆兴和议、嘉定和议,要么以地点命名、要么以时间(年号)命名、甚至还有以使者的往来路线命名的(海上之盟),其实都是史家给安的称呼,没有正式名称,因为条约的文本都是以双方互换诏书中的誓约(平等条约)或者一方给另一方下诏(不平等条约)的形式体现的,而不会写“澶渊之盟 第一条……”

[ 本帖最后由 岳光寒 于 2012-12-14 20:45 编辑 ]
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发表于 2012-12-14 23:56 资料 主页 个人空间 短消息 看全部作者
回复 #37 KYOKO 的帖子

用俗称就行了,当时自然叫江宁条约。
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发表于 2012-12-15 19:12 资料 主页 个人空间 短消息 看全部作者
回复 #40 XM8 的帖子

当时英国人就把江宁称作Nanking的话,倒也有可能,因为明朝的时候西方就有不少传教士过来了,当时明朝的应天府号称南京,可能已经早被翻译成外文了(欧洲语言都是互通的,尤其在音译方面),后来清朝南京失去陪都资格,改叫江宁,但西方人仍按习惯称Nanking。


另:
凡尔赛条约英文版的封面正式名称是
The Treaty of Peace Between the Allied and Associated Powers and Germany (The protocol annexed thereto, the agreement respecting the military occupation of the territories of the Rhine, and the Treaty Between France and Britain Respecting Assistance to France in the event of unprovoked aggression by Germany).
下面还有一行字—— Signed at Versailles, June 28th, 1919,交待时间地点,应该不算作为正式全称的一部分。但简称 The Treaty of Versailles 应该是没问题的。

[ 本帖最后由 岳光寒 于 2012-12-15 19:25 编辑 ]
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发表于 2012-12-15 19:35 资料 主页 个人空间 短消息 看全部作者
回复 #42 XM8 的帖子

我找到了一版原文,上面确实不止一次提到Nanking。基本可以确定当时英文就叫Nanking。

QUOTE:
            Victoria, by the Grace of God, Queen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, Defender of the Faith, etc., etc., etc.  To All and Singular to whom these Presents shall come, Greeting!  Whereas a Treaty between Us and Our Good Brother The Emperor of China, was concluded and signed, in the English and Chinese Languages, on board Our Ship the Cornwallis,  at Nanking, on the Twenty-ninth day of August, in the Year of Our Lord One Thousand Eight Hundred and Forty-two, by the Plenipotentiaries of Us and Our said Good Brother, duly and respectively authorized for that purpose; which Treaty is hereunto annexed in Original:—

TREATY

            Her Majesty the Queen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, and His Majesty the Emperor of China, being desirous of putting an end to the misunderstandings and consequent hostilities which have arisen between the two Countries, have resolved to conclude a Treaty for that purpose, and have therefor named as their Plenipotentiaries, that is to say:—

            Her Majesty the Queen of Great Britain and Ireland, Sir Henry Pottinger, Bart., a Major-General in the Service of the East India Company, etc., etc.;

            And His Imperial Majesty the Emperor of China, the High Commissioners Keying, a Member of the Imperial House, a Guardian of the Crown Prince and General of the Garrison of Canton; and Elepoo, of the Imperial Kindred, graciously permitted to wear the insignia of the first rank, and the distinction of a Peacock’s feather, lately Minister and Governor General, etc., and now Lieutenant-General Commanding at Chapoo:

            Who, after having communicated to each other their respective Full Powers and found them to be in good and due form, have agreed upon, and concluded, the following Articles:—

Article I.

            There shall henceforward be Peace and Friendship between Her Majesty the Queen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, and His Majesty the Emperor of China, and between their respective Subjects, who shall enjoy full security and protection for their persons and property within the Dominions of the other.

Article II.

            His Majesty the Emperor of China agrees that British Subjects, with their families and establishments, shall be allowed to reside, for the purpose of carrying on their Mercantile pursuits, without molestation or restraint at the Cities and Towns of Canton, Amoy, Foochow-fu, Ningpo, and Shanghai, and Her Majesty the Queen of Great Britain, etc., will appoint Superintendents or Consular Officers, to reside at each of the above-named Cities or Towns, to be the medium of communication between the Chinese Authorities and the said Merchants, and to see that the just Duties and other Dues of the Chinese Government as hereafter provided for, are duly discharged by Her Britannic Majesty’s Subjects.

Article III.

            It being obviously necessary and desirable, that British Subjects should have some Port whereat they may careen and refit their Ships, when required, and keep Stores for that purpose, His Majesty the Emperor of China cedes to Her Majesty the Queen of Great Britain, etc., the Island of Hongkong, to be possessed in perpetuity by Her Britannic Majesty, Her Heirs and Successors, and to be governed by such Laws and Regulations as Her Majesty the Queen of Great Britain, etc., shall see fit to direct.

Article IV.

            The Emperor of China agrees to pay the sum of Six Millions of dollars as the value of Opium which was delivered up at Canton in the month of March 1839, as a Ransom for the lives of Her Britannic Majesty’s Superintendent and Subjects, who had been imprisoned and threatened with death by the Chinese High Officers.

Article V.

            The Government of China having compelled British Merchants at Canton to deal exclusively with certain Chinese Merchants called Hong Merchants (or Cohong) who had been licensed by the Chinese Government for that purpose, the Emperor of China agrees to abolish that practice in future at all Ports where British Merchants may reside, and to permit them to carry on their mercantile transactions with whatever persons they please, and His Imperial Majesty further agrees to pay to the British Government the sum of Three Millions of Dollars, on account of Debts due to British Subjects by some of the said Hong Merchants (or Cohong), who have become insolvent, and who owe very large sums of money to Subjects of Her Britannic Majesty.

Article VI.   

            The Government of Her Britannic Majesty having been obliged to send out an Expedition to demand and obtain redress for the violent and unjust Proceedings of the Chinese High Authorities towards Her Britannic Majesty’s Officer and Subjects, the Emperor of China agrees to pay the sum of Twelve Millions of Dollars on account of the Expenses incurred, and Her Britannic Majesty’s Plenipotentiary voluntarily agrees, on behalf of Her Majesty, to deduct from the said amount of Twelve Millions of Dollars, any sums which may have been received by Her Majesty’s combined Forces as Ransom for Cities and Towns in China, subsequent to the 1st day of August 1841.

Article VII.

            It is agreed that the Total amount of Twenty-one Millions of Dollars, described in the three preceding Articles, shall be paid as follows:—

            Six Millions immediately.

            Six Millions in 1843.  That is:—Three Millions on or before the 30th of the month of June, and Three Millions on or before the 31st of December.

            Five Millions in 1844.  That is:—Two Millions and a Half on or before the 30th of June, and Two Millions and a Half on or before the 31st of December.

            Four Millions in 1845.  That is:—Two Millions on or before the 30th of June, and Two Millions on or before the 31st of December; and it is further stipulated, that Interest at the rate of 5 per cent. per annum, shall be paid by the Government of China on any portions of the above sums that are not punctually discharged at the periods fixed.

Article VIII.

            The Emperor of China agrees to release unconditionally all Subjects of Her Britannic Majesty (whether Natives of Europe or India) who may be in confinement at this moment, in any part of the Chinese Empire.

Article IX.

            The Emperor of China agrees to publish and promulgate, under His Imperial Sign Manual and Seal, a full and entire amnesty and act of indemnity, to all Subjects of China on account of their having resided under, or having had dealings and intercourse with, or having entered the Service of Her Britannic Majesty, or of Her Majesty’s Officers, and His Imperial Majesty further engages to release all Chinese Subjects who may be at this moment in confinement for similar reasons.

Article X.

            His Majesty the Emperor of China agrees to establish at all the Ports which are by the 2nd Article of this Treaty to be thrown open for the resort of British Merchants, a fair and regular Tariff of Export and Import Customs and other Dues, which Tariff shall be publicly notified and promulgated for general information, and the Emperor further engages, that when British Merchandise shall have once paid at any of the said Ports the regulated Customs and Dues agreeable to the Tariff, to be hereafter affixed, such Merchandise may be conveyed by Chinese Merchants, to any Province or City in the interior of the Empire of China on paying a further amount as Transit Duties which shall not exceed          per cent. on the tariff value of such goods.

Article XI.

            It is agreed that Her Britannic Majesty’s Chief High Officer in China shall correspond with the Chinese High Officers, both at the Capital and in the Provinces, under the term “Communication”          .  The Subordinate British Officers and Chinese High Officers in the Provinces under the terms “Statement”         on the part of the former, and on the part of the latter “Declaration”           , and the Subordinates of both Countries on a footing of perfect equality.  Merchants and others not holding official situations and, therefore, not included in the above, on both sides, to use the term “Representation”           in all papers addressed to, or intended for the notice of the respective Governments.

Article XII.

            On the assent of the Emperor of China to this Treaty being received and the discharge of the first instalment of money, Her Britannic Majesty’s Forces will retire from Nanking and the Grand Canal, and will no longer molest or stop the Trade of China.  The Military Post at Chinhai will also be withdrawn, but the Islands of Koolangsoo and that of Chusan will continue to be held by Her Majesty’s Forces until the money payments, and the arrangements for opening the Ports to British Merchants be completed.

Article XIII.

            The Ratification of this Treaty by Her Majesty the Queen of Great Britain, etc., and His Majesty the Emperor of China shall be exchanged as soon as the great distance which separates England from China will admit; but in the meantime counterpart copies of it, signed and sealed by the Plenipotentiaries on behalf of their respective Sovereigns, shall be mutually delivered, and all its provisions and arrangements shall take effect.

            Done at Nanking and Signed and Sealed by the Plenipotentiaries on board Her Britannic Majesty’s ship Cornwallis, this twenty-ninth day of August, 1842, corresponding with the Chinese date, twenty-fourth day of the seventh month in the twenty-second year of Taou Kwang.

(L.S.)     HENRY POTTINGER,

Her Majesty’s Plenipotentiary

Chinese Signatures (3).*

Chinese

Seal

            We, having seen and considered the Treaty aforesaid, have approved, accepted, and confirmed the same in all and every one of its Articles and Clauses, as We do by these Presents approve, accept, confirm, and ratify it for Ourselves, Our Heirs, and Successors:— Engaging and Promising upon Our Royal Word, that We will sincerely and faithfully perform and observe all and singular the things which are contained and expressed in the Treaty aforesaid, and that We will never suffer the same to be violated by any one, or transgressed in any manner, as far as it lies in Our Power.

            For the greater Testimony and Validity of all which, We have caused the Great Seal of Our United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland to be affixed to these Presents, which We have signed with Our Royal Hand.

            Given at Our Court at Windsor Castle, the Twenty-eighth day of December, in the Year of Our Lord One Thousand Eight Hundred and Forty-two, and in the Sixth Year of Our Reign.

(Signed)       Victoria R.

* The preamble mentions two Chinese negotiators only, Qi-ying and Yi-li-bu.  The third signature was that of Niu Jian, Liang-jiang Viceroy.

[ 本帖最后由 岳光寒 于 2012-12-15 19:38 编辑 ]
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发表于 2012-12-16 22:16 资料 主页 个人空间 短消息 看全部作者
回复 #45 五袋石果 的帖子

南京是京府之号,不可能是城名,清朝官方也不大可能允许人们继续叫它南京,毕竟曾是明朝的首都,朱元璋的陵也在这里,增其王气的事,清朝统治者应该不会这么干(若干年后太平天王国还跑到这里盘踞)。想想宋太宗下太原之后怎么折腾的,统治者很忌讳这个的。但由于历史原因、文化隔阂以及翻译过程中的不够严谨,老外认为这城叫Nanking倒有可能。

开始是江宁条约,但民国时我们又把这里改叫南京了,又为了跟老外统一,于是都叫南京条约了。你自己看看条约的原文,中文版原文提到的都是江宁,只字未提南京,而英文版的都用Nanking,这是我之前猜测的,这个城早在明朝可能就已经扬名了。

另外签约的地方不在南京城里!!而在停靠在南京的英国船上。船不可能开到城里吧?

[ 本帖最后由 岳光寒 于 2012-12-16 22:29 编辑 ]
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发表于 2012-12-18 09:38 资料 主页 个人空间 短消息 看全部作者
回复 #49 五袋石果 的帖子

民间俗称的话自然大家认可就行,但我觉得如果追究起来,还是犯忌讳的,没法一一追究罢了。

京府之号不可能作为城名自然是官方城名,所谓东京城、南京城也只能说民间习惯说法,不是正式名称,而且两国签约大事,用民间俗称太不严谨了,所以我觉得是早就有翻译,撰写条约时援例而已,而不是现访得民间俗称为南京的。
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