标题: 浅议三国爪牙的特征
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发表于 2009-3-13 07:46 资料 短消息 只看该作者
浅议三国爪牙的特征

泼皮尚武轻文,读史侧重军事,试以爪牙为例,浅析曹刘孙三大阵营的若干特征。本文根据拙著《东汉军阀的爪牙们》有关章节翻译并缩写。

武将一词容易误解,诸葛军师中郎将也算武职,所以有必要缩小定义:爪牙,小脑比大脑发达的武臣走狗。好在陈寿纪传文武分明,曹魏的主要爪牙集中在《魏书9-诸夏侯曹》《魏书》17,18种的五子(二张徐乐于)及两虎(典许);《蜀书》6的五虎;《吴书》10的十二江表虎臣。

从全局看,汉末三国的总体社会状况凄惨,王粲(177-217,裴注重要佚文〈汉末英雄记〉的作者)作于17岁时的五言《七哀》,是中原浩劫的血泪写照:

西京乱无象,豺虎方遘患。
复弃中国去,委身适荆蛮。
亲戚对我悲,朋友相追攀。
出门无所见,白骨蔽平原。
路有饥妇人,抱子弃草间。
顾闻号泣声,挥涕独不还。
未知身死处,何能两相完?
驱马弃之去,不忍听此言。
南登霸陵岸,回首望长安。
悟彼下泉人,喟然伤心肝

当时的帝国心脏地区,人相食/人肉脯的暴行早已见怪不怪,总人口也很有可能达到过中国历史最低点:三国末年的人口统计与同年西晋初的统计相差近1000万口(7.67百万 vs. 16.16百万),可知西晋的1600万已经包括了大量战乱逃税人口,而在内战最惨烈的2世纪末-3世纪初,人口必定大大低于3世纪末的1600万... 见David Graff, Medieval Chinese Warfare 300-900(4-10世纪中古中国战争,伦敦,2002年版

汉末三国的军队远远没有文艺作品电脑游戏所刻画的八面威风,说是一群乌合之众比较恰当:

三国军队有最简单的步骑分制,作战的一般模式是:弓弩压阵,骑兵由两翼包抄。爪牙类的战将平时豢养着一批亲近部队,战时则依赖最原始的“陷阵”法(英语Forlorn Hope:绝望战法,置之死地而后生),凭个人的英勇魅力带动部下,身先士卒,最好能撕开敌人的防线,形成突破口... (张辽800敢死队诸如此类)

作战时,弓箭手没有命令永远不准离开岗位;下级官兵身后站着上一级的长官,随时准备阵斩畏缩的胆小鬼(潘璋于合肥之战阵斩徐盛所部逃兵:璋身次在后,便驰进,横马斩谦、盛兵走者二人,兵皆还战)... 详见曹操〈步战令

部队的装备,军服,给养不足属于正常状态,如果充足就是例外了。士兵或出于忠诚,或出于畏惧他们的顶头上司,抱着奸淫掳掠的指望加入亡命的行列... 随军人员包括妻子儿女,厨师,军妓,货郎,赌徒,江湖郎中(军医)... 见De Crespigny, Generals of the South 江东的将军们,堪培拉,1996年版

〈军谶〉:军无财,士不来;军无赏,士不往。为了活跃经济,三国军市高度发展:潘璋... 征伐止顿,便立军市,他军所无,皆仰取足。而翟麦玲女士认为宋以前的所谓军市就是女市的婉称,主要从事的就是拉皮条慰安的勾当,见“军市与女市”,〈学研 〉2004年3月号

〈正字通〉:汉武始置营妓,以待军士之无妻室者。曹洪举办过脱衣舞文艺演出—— 洪置酒大会,令女倡著罗縠之衣,蹋鼓,一坐皆笑。阜厉声责洪曰:“男女之别,国之大节,何有于广坐之中裸女人形体!虽桀、纣之乱,不甚于此。”遂奋衣辞出。洪立罢女乐,请阜还坐,肃然惮焉

使惇都督二十六军,留居巢。赐伎乐名倡,令曰:“魏绛以和戎之功,犹受金石之乐,况将军乎!—— 夏侯惇一介武夫,懂什么魏绛礼乐的修养!伎乐名倡?说是文艺工作者,其实就是娼妓!

三大阵营的各自特点:

曹魏:国家机器相对最完善,人力物质资源优势,传统中央体系完备

1. 主要爪牙的年龄比较接近,多为165年左右生人;

2. 辉煌战绩多发生在中晚年,40-50岁年龄段,主要因为20岁年龄段,尚未赶上内战全面爆发

3. 非自然死亡率很低,仅典韦,夏侯渊,张郃三人阵亡,于禁被俘。对于高危险职业而言,曹魏主要爪牙的遭遇都还不错。曹仁张辽陷阵几乎=找死,也可能是部下夸大了战功,反正史官也不在场...

4. 官爵待遇最高:正式进入三国时代以前,许多爪牙的汉制官方头衔已经和身为主子的刘备孙权平级;侯邑有具体对应的户数。

5. 岗位分工相对明确:曹仁主要负责南方前线,张辽镇东,张郃征西...

蜀汉:起步艰辛,以刘备正统感召理想主义者跟班, 人力物质资源有限

1. 岗位分工模糊,赵云里外一脚踢。后期由于地盘的巩固,渐趋明朗,而且除荆州之争,孙刘联盟毕竟维持了相当时期,减轻了蜀汉东线的压力,人手有限,勉强也可对付

2. 封侯多为虚封,遥领,没有具体食邑户数记载,也可能是蜀吴的文史档案遭到过破坏,陈寿缺乏相关资料。

东吴:边缘文化,地方保护主义,反叛精神,远离内战中心,有利后方发展空间

1. 孙权称帝晚于曹丕,刘备各8-9年,东吴亡国也最晚,晚于魏,蜀各15-17年。江东爪牙的官爵爬升最慢:12江表虎臣中仅潘璋(右将军)丁奉(大将军)活到了重号将军的位子。

2. 孙权的走狗爬得慢,除了孙权本人官爵晋升慢,也与爪牙平均寿命较短有关。12虎臣中9个没有活到主子称帝...

3. 南中国边缘文化(荆楚,吴越)的继承者,孙权难免地方土豪主义,有限度地实施世袭领兵制度,人事管理的手段类似黑社会,人情重于法治,多次包庇纵容爱将:

陈武:从击合肥,奋命战死。权哀之,自临其葬江表传曰:权命以其爱妾殉

凌统:拘於军正。权壮其果毅,使得以功赎罪

潘璋:然性奢泰,末年弥甚,服物僭拟。吏兵富者,或杀取其财物,数不奉法,监司举奏,权惜其功而辄原不问

孙盛评述:孙权之养士也,倾心竭思,以求其死力,泣周泰之夷,殉陈武之妾,请吕蒙之命,育凌统之孤,卑曲苦志,如此之勤也。是故虽令德无闻,仁泽(内)著,而能屈强荆吴,僭拟年岁者,抑有由也。然霸王之道,期於大者远者,是以先王建德义之基,恢信顺之宇,制经略之纲,明贵贱之序,易简而其亲可久,体全而其功可大,岂委璅近务,邀利於当年哉?语曰“虽小道,必有可观者焉,致远恐泥”,其是之谓乎

4. 性格多粗猛,天性叛逆,目无法纪,子孙犯罪败家率高。

宁虽粗猛好杀,然开爽有计略,轻财敬士,能厚养健儿.... 璋为人粗猛,禁令肃然,好立功业,所领兵马不过数千,而其所在常如万人

魏蜀的爪牙出身传统中华文化区,修养较好,罕见陈寿以“粗猛”形容。12江东虎臣中,5个生了败家子:

韩当子:综为前锋,军败身死,诸葛恪斩送其首,以白权庙

蒋钦:壹无子,弟休领兵,后有罪失业

甘宁:子瑰,以罪徙会稽,无几死

凌统:二子烈、封,年各数岁,权内养于宫... 后烈有罪免

潘璋:嘉禾三年卒。子平,以无行徙会稽

[ 本帖最后由 泼皮 于 2009-3-13 08:24 编辑 ]


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发表于 2009-3-13 08:40 资料 文集 短消息 只看该作者
《东汉军阀的爪牙们》原名叫什么?


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发表于 2009-3-13 08:50 资料 短消息 只看该作者
求《东汉军阀的爪牙们》原文版本
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发表于 2009-3-13 08:58 资料 短消息 只看该作者
求王粲七哀诗原文版本
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发表于 2009-3-13 11:10 资料 短消息 只看该作者


QUOTE:
原帖由 Maxwell 于 2009-3-13 08:40 发表
《东汉军阀的爪牙们》原名叫什么?

对不起哦,给了原版书名,俺的真实姓名就给搜索出来啦!在此还是保留隐私吧。主题内容是从原作的各章节七拼八凑归纳起来的,贴几段文字,欢迎批评:

节选自三国特色武官制简介
1.     Dudu都督 orCommander-in-Chief

       Cao Cao introduced dudu,a new office in charge of large operations involving multiple chains ofcommand or military routines within a certain battle zone. His twoarchrivals soon followed the practice. A Commander-in-Chief’sjurisdiction ranged in size from a few provinces in the largest stateof Wei to one single commandery in the smallest kingdom of Shu whoseterritory was confined to one province only. The Commander-in-Chief wasan irregular appointment for the purpose of one campaign or theestablishment of one battle zone only. Bearers of this title held theirregular ranked offices, some as low as Deputy General.The system ofcommander-in-chief continued into future dynasties and survived atleast in name till early republican China.

2The Four Generals Who Conquers, Fortifies,Subdues, and Pacifies

      Besides thecontinuation of the eight tenured generalships of the Han, some sixteenout of a multitude of temporary generalships under the Three Kingdomsdeserve special attention. These were the four Generals Who Conquers,Fortifies, Subdues, and Pacifies with a directional suffix: zhengdong/xi/nan/bei jiangjun征東/西//北將軍, zhendong/xi/nan/bei jiangjun鎮東/西//北將軍, pingdong/xi/nan/bei  jiangjun平東/西//北將軍, andong/xi/nanbei jiangjun安東/西///北將軍 etc. The first eight,collectively called the sizheng四征 and sizhen四鎮, often exercised chief commandership of a duduat one of the four battle fronts. Although still sort ofcontractually-limited, the Generals Who Conquers and Fortifies wereranked higher than those of the Van, Left,Right, and Rear, and in somecases, even the General of Chariots and Cavalry.Again, these werespecial appointments in accordance with wartime realities.

3. Standing Armies and Guards

      Cao Cao established a Regiment of Martial Patrol wuweiying武衛營to guard his personal safety soon after he became the chancellor. Thefirst commander of this elite force, which outgrew the old FiveRegiments of the Eastern Han, will be introduced in Chapter Four. Foursimilar battalions joined the force of imperial guards during thereigns of the first two emperors of the Wei Dynasty. These units inaddition to a standing Internal Army or zhongjun中軍 in the fashion of the Northern and Southern Armies under the Han, protected the central government.An External Army or waijun外軍,subdivided into the left, right, and van, spread over all strategicareas of the empire under the usual command of the Generals WhoConquers, Fortifies, Subdues, and Pacifies. Keyposts at the InternalArmy were the Commissioner or hujun護軍, in charge of the election of military personnel inthe capital region, and the Director or lingjun領軍 as head of the Five Battalions and the Internal Army.
The Shu and Wu bothmaintained five armies of the van, rear, center, left, and right. TheShushared with the Wei a similar chain of command including theDirector,Commissioner, and a few other officers. Due to its riverinegeography, the kingdom of Wu boasted strong navy with monstrouswarships capable of carrying at least eighty horses. Meanwhile acomplex deployment of escorts ensured the safety of the emperors andthe central government, all with imposing names such as the FiveBattalions wuying五營, Five Regiments wuxiao五校, Trouble-solvers jiefan解煩, Daredevils gansi敢死, and Tiger Archers husheli虎射吏, etc.

4. Military Masters junshi 軍師

      One of the mostpopular Three Kingdoms offices, the Military Master had a low profileEastern Han origin. At the fifth of the Nine-Rank system of officialhierarchy, it lacked prestige but somehow was significant as atransitory or auxiliary post occupied by some greatest names of theThree Kingdoms. Its most famous occupants were Xun You荀攸 (157-214), a senior mastermind ofCao Cao, and WeiYan魏延 (174-234), a veteran general of the Shu Han. Two variants of the Military Master, Director General of the Household junshi zhonglangjiang軍師中郎將 and Director General junshi jiangjun軍師將軍,were what prepared Zhuge Liang for his ultimate service as the regentchancellor of Shu Han. The exact nature of this office however, remainsunsettled between merely advisory to a lord or supervisory over suchimportant matters of an entire army as election, disciplines, andlitigations

5. Hereditary Soldiers, Allowance andInheritance of Semi-Private Troops

      Historicalstatistics indicate that population during the Eastern Han civil warshad hit an all time low of documented Chinese civilization, at aroundten millions. Lives in a falling empire were cut short by natural andman-made disasters. Shortage of soldiers who wereoften lost faster thanfound troubled every warlord. A make-do remedy was theMilitaryHouseholds or shijia士家policy, created by Cao Cao and soon adopted by Liu Bei and Sun Quan.The basic idea was to regimentate a selected population into militaryhouseholds where sons were made soldiers and daughters the soldiers’brides in a hereditary manner. The government could therefore count onacontinuous flow of new blood for military services. More about thispolicy is covered in the next chapter.
A rather unique militarytradition in the state of Wu was the allowance andinheritance ofsemi-private troops. Meritorious vassals of the Sun’s were oftenentitled to a number of troops between a few hundreds to severalthousands as their semi-private properties: the troops along with anylordship were inheritable by their adult sons; the only exceptionsseemed to be the successors’ irrelevance to military occupation orcriminal convictions against them. Under these two circumstances thesemi-private troops were reclaimed by the government and free to bereassigned to other vassals. As a regime grown out of a network ofpowerful local clans in South China,it was an inevitable choice for theWu to remain the least centralized of the Three Kingdoms with, amongother things, its circumstantial delegations ofprivate troops. Similarpractices were a possibility in the peripheral Shu Han,but certainly aprohibition under the Wei whose heartland bureaucracy wouldhavediscouraged any attempts at decentralization.
[url=#_ftnref1]

[1]
[/url]
Zhou Yu’s official rank wasDeputy Generalwhen he acted as the Commander-in-Chief in the battle ofRed Cliff. For more information about the system, see Zhang Xiaowen張小穩: 12-19.

[url=#_ftnref2]
[2][/url] The first appearance of this office is inWei Xiao (died 33)’s隗囂 biography HHS, ch. 13: 138-44.


[url=#_ftnref3]
[3][/url] The eighth century encyclopedia Tong dian通典attributedvarious supervisory powers to the military master in Xun You’s case.Nosuch evidence is found in historical documents closer to the dates oftheThree Kingdoms.
  

[url=#_ftnref4]
[4][/url] For comparative data, see Ge Jianxiong葛劍雄, one of the leading socio-geographical historians: Zhongguo renkoushi中國人口史, vol. 1.
以下节选自军旅百态章节
The Soldiers’Women: Marriage and Prostitution  

       Soldiers under the Qin andWestern Han conscription system were civilians in peacetime:they made aliving, usually as farmers, artisans, or merchants, received periodicalmilitary training, paid active service on rotation as self-sufficientconscripts, and resumed their civilian life when off duty. Even withinthe bureaucracy of the central government, there was no tenuredgeneralship until the 100’s (the various ways of enlistment includingconscription and recruitment have been discussed in the previoussection). Marriage must not have been a difficultfulfillment for most men simply because soldiery was never a full timeoccupation. However, the rise of recruits and worse still, thehereditary soldiers or shijia, did seem to have introduced a massive population of bachelors desperate for a bride. As aforementioned, daughters and widows of the shijiawere alreadyobliged to marry and remarry their own kind as anaccountable source of wives.Still, the ragged armies of the Eastern Hanwarlords needed more ways to solvethe marriage problem for theirsoldiers whose dangerous life-long service made them the leastdesirable husbands. Plundering was a regular, though unofficialsolution. The Biographies of VirtuousWomen 列女傳 in the HHS contain records of incidents where women, as spoils of war, fought to death against rape and forced marriage.[url=#_ftn1][1][/url]  One of the most infamous plunders was committed by the troops of Dong Zhuo:

       In the second month of 189, Dong’s troops ran into a peaceful gathering of townsfolk at the city of Yangcheng 陽城for an early spring festival. Dong let his troops attack the civiliancrowd. They beheaded all the males, took all the women and everythingvaluable… the women were laterdistributed to the soldiers as wives and consorts…”[url=#_ftn2][2][/url]   

       For women in a war-torn empire, what could be worse than forced marriage was still military prostitution. Althoughrecords usually shy at whether and how women used exclusively forintercourse were paid, given the context of extreme wartime destitutionwhich might as well have denied them of any payment butbasicsubsistence, prostitution seems less a misnomer than sex slavery. A peaceful family life was a luxury to most soldiers, and more often than not the women in their lives were not their legal spouses, but army prostitutes,known in Chinese as yingji 營妓. The late Ming dictionary, Zhengzi tong正字通, associated this term yingji with Emperor Wudi of Han, who was allegedly responsible for “the formal establishment of the yingji facility, to satisfy wifeless soldiers.” 漢武始置營妓,以待軍士之無妻室者[url=#_ftn3][3][/url]Atleast one of his generals, Li Ling was less than hospitable to femalepresence in the armies, which he considered as being in conflict with asupposedly macho unit. On one occasion he ordered an execution of allwomen, prostitutes or relatives of his soldiers.[url=#_ftn4][4][/url]Indication of yet centuries earlier similar practice is also foundin the Yuejue shu越絕書, an Eastern Han text stating that, during the 470’s, Gou Jian句踐 (r.497–465 BC),king of Yue, once “sent widows guilty of misconduct to the mountains, so his sexually frustrated soldiers could play with these women and have their needs met輸有過寡婦於山上,使士之憂思者遊之,以娛其意.” [url=#_ftn5][5][/url]  This actually sounds more like sex slavery, or an Eastern Han and earlier utilization of bad women in violation of proper widowhood.
The period in question was agood hostfor military prostitution. Incessant civil wars had left marriedsoldiers and their wives apart for years and single soldiers morelikely to remain single. In the warlords’ camps, prostitution was notonly a sanctioned presence, but also a legitimate reward. One famousrecipient of such reward was Xiahou Dun夏侯惇(died 220), Cao Cao’s veteran cousin who received prostitutes and female entertainers伎樂名倡inthe year 216. Cao Cao’s command on this occasion compared theworthiness of Xiahou Dun to that of an Eastern Zhou vassal who receivedmusical instruments from his lord for peaceful diplomacy with thewestern nomads.[url=#_ftn6][6][/url]This suggests that prostitutes could have been quite an exceptional honor to the warriors of the time.
Again, not everyone regarded women an honorable asset to the military, especially the civil bureaucracy.In 214, Cao Hong曹洪(died. 232),another veteran cousin of Cao Cao, hosted a banquet in celebration ofhis latest victory. A group of barely naked young women performedexotic dance. This was met with outright condemnation by one of theguests, a Grand Administrator who saw in female nudity in public theghost of ancient tyrannies. Ashamed, Cao Hong called off the showinstantly. What his women revealed in this case was indeed more thantheir bodies, but the Chinese civil-military duet on ideological andpractical keynotes: the military were patronized well with officialsanction of their less refined indulgence; the civil elites or shicould nonetheless dwarf them, even those of a higher command,into somesocial underdog by virtue of moral eloquence.[url=#_ftn7][7][/url]
[url=#_ftnref1][/url] Thewife of a certain Xu Shengwas one of such named virtuous women featured in HHS, ch. 84: 811-12.

[/url] Biographyof Dong Zhuo in SGZJZJY, ch. 6: 337.

[/url] Thislate Ming to early Qing dictionary contains twelve volumesand some 33000entries, most of which are abundantly annotated.
[4]
[/url]HS,ch. 54: 779-82.

[/url] Yuejue shu: 281.

[/url]The vassal was Wei Jiang魏絳 of Jin,Duke Xiang襄公, 11th year, Zuo Zhuan左传. Cao Cao sounded a bit sarcastic:a talons and fangs material likeXiahou Dun was not refined enough toappreciate musical instruments.Women, for sex and entertainment purposes, werea more suitable reward.


SGZJZJY,ch. 25: 1388. This incident clearly denies any distinctionbetweenprostitutes and female entertainers at a warrior’s service: ifCao Hong’s women performedexotic dance, they most certainly slept withhim as well.


[ 本帖最后由 泼皮 于 2009-3-13 11:24 编辑 ]
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发表于 2009-3-13 11:30 资料 短消息 只看该作者


QUOTE:
原帖由 万恶的箱子 于 2009-3-13 08:58 发表
求王粲七哀诗原文版本

百度:http://baike.baidu.com/view/592123.htm

七哀 - 王粲
  其一
  西京乱无象,
  豺虎方遘患。
  复弃中国去,
  委身适荆蛮。
  亲戚对我悲,
  朋友相追攀。
  出门无所见,
  白骨蔽平原。
  路有饥妇人,
  抱子弃草间。
  顾闻号泣声,
  挥涕独不还。
  未知身死处,
  何能两相完?
  驱马弃之去,
  不忍听此言。
  南登霸陵岸,
  回首望长安。
  悟彼下泉人,
  喟然伤心肝。
  其二
  荆蛮非我乡,
  何为久滞淫。
  方舟溯大江,
  日暮愁我心。
  山冈有余映,
  岩阿增重阴。
  狐狸驰赴穴,
  飞鸟翔故林。
  流波激清响,
  猴猿临岸吟。
  迅风拂裳袂,
  白露沾衣襟。
  独夜不能寐,
  摄衣起抚琴。
  丝桐感人情,
  为我发悲音。
  羁旅无终极,
  忧思壮难任。
  其三
  边城使心悲,
  昔吾亲更之。
  冰雪截肌肤,
  风飘无止期。
  百里不见人,
  草木谁当迟。
  登城望亭燧,
  翩翩飞戍旗。
  行者不顾反,
  出门与家辞。
  子弟多俘虏,
  哭泣无已时。
  天下尽乐土,
  何为久留兹。
  蓼虫不知辛,
  去来勿与谘
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发表于 2009-3-13 11:32 资料 文集 短消息 只看该作者
你所贴的部分是从哪儿来的?你自己手敲的?出书的时候带着电子版?
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发表于 2009-3-13 11:41 资料 短消息 只看该作者


QUOTE:
原帖由 泼皮 于 2009-3-13 11:10 发表
对不起哦,给了原版书名,俺的真实姓名就给搜索出来啦!在此还是保留隐私吧。主题内容是从原作的各章节七拼八凑归纳起来的,贴几段文字,欢迎批评:

七拼八凑没关系,求主贴内容在翻译之前的版本。

另,膜拜一下某些翻译

QUOTE:
For comparative data, see Ge Jianxiong葛劍雄, one of the leading socio-geographical historians: Zhongguo renkoushi中國人口史, vol. 1.
associated this term yingji with Emperor Wudi of Han, who was allegedly responsible for “the formal establishment of the yingji facility, to satisfy wifeless soldiers.” 漢武始置營妓,以待軍士之無妻室者
The vassal was Wei Jiang魏絳 of Jin晉,Duke Xiang襄公, 11th year, Zuo Zhuan左传. Cao Cao sounded a bit sarcastic:a talons and fangs material likeXiahou Dun was not refined enough toappreciate musical instruments.Women, for sex and entertainment purposes, werea more suitable reward.

ps.求教国外著作中SGZJZJY一般是指什么书?
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发表于 2009-3-13 11:49 资料 短消息 只看该作者


QUOTE:
原帖由 大多数人 于 2009-3-13 11:41 发表

七拼八凑没关系,求主贴内容在翻译之前的版本。

另,膜拜一下某些翻译


ps.求教国外著作中SGZJZJY一般是指什么书?

楼主的语言应该是翻译之前的吧?要翻译成中文,而不是翻译前是中文吧……
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发表于 2009-3-13 12:03 资料 短消息 只看该作者


QUOTE:
原帖由 极少数人 于 2009-3-13 11:49 发表

楼主的语言应该是翻译之前的吧?要翻译成中文,而不是翻译前是中文吧……

原著是英文,俺是海外华裔,节选翻译了部分,在中文论坛发言呀。

楼上问的电子版,我是作者,自己当然有MS Word原稿咯,贴过来有些乱码...

SGZJZJY是苏渊雷〈三国志今注今译〉的缩写。引用的主要原始史籍因为重复出现频率高,所以多用缩写,如SJ=史记,HS=汉书,HHS=后汉书... 通常以中华书局版本为准,但是我个人比较推崇方北辰的〈三国志注译〉版本,中华书局的太老了,60年代至今,新的考古发现就不少...

[ 本帖最后由 泼皮 于 2009-3-13 12:20 编辑 ]
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发表于 2009-3-13 13:15 资料 文集 短消息 只看该作者
那就是说你是从word里面贴上来的?
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发表于 2009-3-13 14:54 资料 短消息 只看该作者


QUOTE:
原帖由 泼皮 于 2009-3-13 11:30 发表


百度:http://baike.baidu.com/view/592123.htm

七哀 - 王粲
  其一
  西京乱无象,
  豺虎方遘患。
  复弃中国去,
  委身适荆蛮。
  亲戚对我悲,
  朋友相追攀。
  出门无所 ...

您理解错了,我是想拜读下您这部英文著作里翻译成英文的七哀诗
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回复 #8 大多数人 的帖子

Zhongguo renkoushi中國人口史
在MLA等学术文章格式中,引用或提到中文书目是可以用这种标明方法的,拼音可以表音,再辅以汉字,让想找中文原版的容易一些,当然一般也要加个括号意译一下书名的内容,打通音、形、义三要素。

營妓的问题,因为前面已经有这么一句话解释过了,所以后面直接用 yingji 就没问题了
but army prostitutes,known in Chinese as yingji 營妓.

The vassal was Wei Jiang魏絳 of Jin晉,Duke Xiang襄公, 11th year, Zuo Zhuan左传
这个翻译确实是有问题,因为解释不清楚,《左传》用鲁国纪念,襄公11年是表示时间的,这里很容易混淆成前面提到的晋国。
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发表于 2009-3-13 15:30 资料 短消息 只看该作者


QUOTE:
原帖由 万恶的箱子 于 2009-3-13 14:54 发表

您理解错了,我是想拜读下您这部英文著作里翻译成英文的七哀诗

这样啊?俺的原著没有引用〈七哀〉,只翻译了王粲另一首乐府:〈从军行〉

〈七哀〉(其一)的标准英语版本历来推John Frodsham的翻译,见Classical Chinese Literature中国古典文学选辑,纽约哥伦比亚大学版

When wild disorder gripped the Western Capital
Tigers and wolves added to our despair
So I turned about and fled the Middle Kingdom
To far-off Jing, among the Man-tribes there
My relatives stood facing me in sorrow
Beyond the city gates there's nothing to see
But white bones strewn across the level plain
Upon the road I met a starving woman
Who'd left her suckling child to die in the grass
She turned her head to listen to its crying
But brushed away her tears and would not return
"Since I do not know the place where death will take me
How can I manage to care for my child as well?"
I spurred my horse and left her far behind
For I could bear the words she spoke
As I journeyed south, I climbed up Baling tomb
Then I turned my head and gazed towards Chang'an
Now I understand the Song of the Falling Spring
The sighs I heave are enough to break my heart

注意王粲这年仅17岁,深刻感人...
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发表于 2009-3-13 15:35 资料 短消息 只看该作者


QUOTE:
原帖由 张建昭 于 2009-3-13 15:29 发表
Zhongguo renkoushi中國人口史
在MLA等学术文章格式中,引用或提到中文书目是可以用这种标明方法的,拼音可以表音,再辅以汉字,让想找中文原版的容易一些,当然一般也要加个括号意译一下书名的内容,打通音、 ...

建昭:

转贴时出现乱码:原文的襄公10年,左传等为斜体字,表明书名的惯例用法,不会与正文混淆。谢谢指出哦
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发表于 2009-3-13 19:58 资料 主页 文集 短消息 只看该作者
中国人口史里葛剑雄把王育文痛批一番后,自己把王的结论砍掉零头,给了个三国末年3000万人口的结论
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发表于 2009-3-23 09:19 资料 短消息 只看该作者
lz的中文真好,汗颜
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发表于 2009-3-23 09:33 资料 短消息 只看该作者
英文呀!!!他比较认识我耶~~~
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发表于 2009-3-24 14:23 资料 短消息 只看该作者


QUOTE:
原帖由 无隙 于 2009-3-23 09:33 发表
英文呀!!!他比较认识我耶~~~

这有什么呢?英文是写给老外看的,赚人家的报酬。题目还是中文说了算
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